Podcast by InnovatorsBox®

Dear Workplace: Season 3

Falling in Love with Korean Culture with Noona’s Noonchi

Dear Workplace – a Podcast by InnovatorsBox®. Hosted by Monica H. Kang.

Reimagine how you thrive at work through conversations that matter. Hosted by workplace creativity expert Monica H. Kang, we’ll study the latest trends, changes, and challenges to untangle workplace people problems. We’ll talk with executives, innovators, and experts and visit different industries around the world so that you get first dibs into the changing workforce. 

Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred platform of choice!

In this episode of Dear Workplace, host Monica Kang sits down with Jeanie Y. Chang, a licensed marriage and family therapist and the founder of Noona’s Noonchi, to discuss the transformative power of Korean dramas (K-Dramas) in mental health. Jeanie shares her journey from discovering the unexpected therapeutic potential of K-Dramas in her practice to building Noona’s Noonchi into a global platform that brings people together. The conversation delves into how Jeanie’s unique blend of professional expertise, cultural insight, and business acumen helped her leverage K-Dramas to foster understanding, connection, and healing. Through personal stories and professional insights, Jeanie reveals how K-Dramas transcend cultural boundaries to create a universal language around mental health.

Listeners will be captivated by Jeanie’s inspiring journey, from her early days struggling to find a career path that fit her multifaceted interests to launching innovative mental health initiatives centered on Korean culture. The episode highlights Jeanie’s mission to destigmatize mental health challenges and make the subject more approachable through storytelling. With exciting insights into Noona’s Noonchi tours and Jeanie’s upcoming book, this episode provides a thoughtful exploration of how K-Dramas can offer powerful lessons on belongingness, healing, and mental health.

Guest: Jeanie Y. Chang

Founder and CEO Noona’s Noonchi®️

Jeanie Y. Chang is a licensed clinician, mental health educator, executive coach, speaker, and author of "How K-Dramas Can Transform Your Life," set for release in May 2024. She began her career in broadcast journalism in Washington, DC, transitioned to business marketing, and then found her true calling in mental health. Her clinical expertise includes workplace mental health, intergenerational health, trauma, burnout, and psychological safety. As the founder and CEO of Noona’s Noonchi®, she integrates the powerful storytelling of K-Dramas into mental health conversations, bridging cultural identity and wellness. Her platform has grown globally, offering K-Culture tours to South Korea. With her interdisciplinary clinical practice rooted in cultural confidence®, Jeanie serves as a subject matter expert and a DEIB advisor for organizations worldwide.

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Episode Shownotes

1. Episode Title: Falling in Love with Korean Culture with Noona’s Noonchi

2. Host: Monica H. Kang, Founder and CEO of InnovatorsBox

3. Episode Description:

Have you ever found yourself moved to tears while watching a K-drama? You’re not alone, and our guest today is here to explain why! Therapist Jeanie Y. Chang recognized the importance of mental well-being, yet found existing information too clinical and distant. Combining her expertise as a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified clinical trauma professional, Jeanie noticed how conversations about storytelling and K-dramas often broke barriers. Thus, Noona’s Noonchi was born. Through Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and even in-person tours in Korea, Jeanie’s K-drama and mental health content has resonated with over 68k followers, offering a refreshing approach to mental wellness. 


4. Guest:
Jeanie Y. Chang, Founder Noona’s Noonchi

5. Key Topics Covered:

  • The emotional impact of Korean dramas (K-Dramas) and their ability to connect people.
  • Jeanie Chang’s journey as a therapist integrating K-Dramas in mental health.
  • Cultural confidence and how K-Dramas foster understanding across diverse groups.
  • The inception and growth of Noona’s Noonchi as a business.
  • Insights into Korean culture, from food to communal spirit.

6. Highlights

  • Jeanie’s discovery of the therapeutic potential of K-Dramas by accident and the positive response from clients.
  • The journey of building Noona’s Noonchi and how it’s become a global sensation.
  • The inspiring impact of Noona’s Noonchi tours and the diverse community it has brought together.
  • The exciting launch of Jeanie’s book on K-Dramas and mental health, showcasing their powerful influence.
  • Insights into Jeanie’s personal journey, balancing cultural identity and a passion for mental health.

7. Quotes from the guest:

    1. “It’s not just about watching K-Dramas; it’s about understanding the deeper messages they convey about mental health.”
    2. “My goal is to make mental health relatable and approachable through the lens of K-Dramas.”
    3. “I’m so proud to use my Korean culture to help others understand themselves better.”

8. Contact Information: Jeanie Y. Chang can be followed on LinkedIn and other social media platforms.


9. Closing Thoughts by Monica Kang:

Monica emphasized the importance of creativity in mental health, how Jeanie’s work brings inspiration through unique storytelling, and encouraged listeners to explore the meaningful lessons embedded in K-Dramas.


10. Episode Length and Release Date:

Episode Length: Approximately 47 mins
Release Date: May 2, 2024


00:00

Monica H. Kang
So confession time. Have you cried watching a Korean drama or Korean movie? Well, you’re not alone. Theres something powerful about how I find myself in these characters and help empathize, maybe a colleague of mine or another person that I haven’t thought of in that way. If you’re feeling that and if this is your first time noticing that you’re not alone, it’s the very pattern that my friend Jeanie Y. Chang noticed as she continued to fall in love with K-drama. But as a therapist, how she found so many reasons of why it made sense. We resonated with her expertise in therapy and mental health. Its because K-drama really dug deep in how they tell their story to help us relate but also talk about mental health challenges and problems in a very creative way that helps us rethink about it. 


00:56

Monica H. Kang
So she decided to connect the dots. Meet Jeannie. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified clinical drama professional who founded Your Change Provider, an interdisciplinary practice, to provide solutions in her unique framework, cultural confidence. But she is also better known in her role as the founder and CEO of Noona’s Noonchi, where she offers mental health advice through k content and also provides opportunities to bring people together in person through her Noona’s Noonchi Korea Tour. That’s right. In addition to following her on Instagram and YouTube and all of that, where you get K drama and K mental health tips, you can actually see her and go to Korea in person in her Korea tours. 


01:48

Monica H. Kang
Its been wonderful and inspiring to see how she has used K-Drama in a very creative and powerful way to talk about a very important topic such as mental health. But it wasn’t as a clean journey. As you can imagine. Today, she is a keynote speaker and an award winning author where you’ll see her work and references in many places. But she had a humble beginning. And so today, we’ll meet Jeanie to dive into all of that. So welcome to Dear Workplace. I’m your host, Monica Kang, founder and CEO of InnovatorsBox. And we’re continuing our series of falling in love with Korea. Let’s meet Jeanie. 


02:30

Monica H. Kang
Very excited to have my friend Jeanie here. Jeanie, welcome to the show. And, in fact, a returning guest. I know we’ve had you in season one and season two, but such a delight because since we’ve had you, there’s been so much more work you’ve been doing integrating korean culture and well as highlighting something very important, which is mental health and wellbeing. Tell me a little bit more. What first inspired you to want to integrate mental health through Kdrama? 


02:56

Jeanie Y. Chang
That’s always a fun question. I get it actually came by accident. It was very natural. It was not planned initially a therapy session. So a serious moment. And this was pre pandemic, blurry on the years, but maybe like 2017, 2018, where this therapy session was not going well. It was a very tense session, family session, mother and daughter. And long story short, I was like, oh, this is not going well. I would say it’s escalating. And then finally I just went, too much K dramas, you know, it was kind of like, whatever, let me bring something in. And the teen girl was like, yeah. So I got her attention. But long story short. And the mother’s like, not really. But I’ve watched some, like, thai dramas. You know, they were like, half tied, half chinese. Anyways, I decided to assign them homework. 


03:41

Jeanie Y. Chang
So it’s not like we watched it in the session. And actually, we never have watched it in sessions because it takes too much time. But I said, why don’t you watch this? And the K drama that I talked about was reply, 1988. Do you remember that one? 


03:52

Monica H. Kang
It’s one of my favorite. 


03:53

Jeanie Y. Chang
Yeah, right? And I. It was the only one I thought of. And I was like, I just want. I go and I said, I want you to see the final episode. And it’s really between father and daughter. But I said, it’s still, I just want you to watch it, and maybe there’s something you can learn with the way they communicate it. So long story short, they ended up coming back. They were definitely interested. Like, what’s this? What kind of therapist? And I had already been seeing them for a while, so they trusted me. But then when they came back is when I felt a shift. Like, they came back and didn’t say, we’re all better. No, they just went, by the way we ended up watching the entire thing. I went, what? I go. I said, one episode, but I guess, okay. 


04:29

Jeanie Y. Chang
But they were like, they watched that episode together. They followed their homework, but they watched it separately because the mom was definitely interested in during the day when the kid was at school, she would watch it, and then the daughter watched it. And the whole point was they came back more open to talking and realizing their situation, and they gathered different things. So without sharing too much, they realized it was just a different way of doing therapy. And that was the beginning. But I didn’t keep using it in therapy sessions. Actually, I brought it into a workshop, and then it builds from there. So I’d say it built faster. Bringing kdramas into my mental health sessions through workshops like, student workshops, student sessions, virtual sessions, and then it grew from there. But definitely that’s how it started. 


05:11

Jeanie Y. Chang
And I just remember going, I think I’m onto something. And then when I saw the reaction in this workshop, when I said, do you guys watch k dramas? Maybe 40% of the room was like, yeah. And those 40% did see boys over flowers, which was the example I was going to bring in. They were like, yeah, I saw that again. It shifted the energy, and it was like a different way of talking about mental health, a serious subject. And then it worked. And I think, honestly, the start of the pandemic, it grew from there. So it was a natural way to bring it in because I thought it was just a different way of talking about some difficult topics that’s pretty much very stigmatized in our community. Asian Americans. 


05:53

Jeanie Y. Chang
This is how I brought it in, but obviously, it’s expanded my audience, but it started with Asian Americans and how to talk about mental health. 


06:00

Monica H. Kang
Well, what’s really powerful is not only the humbling journey and story. I feel like you need a story real on this, because, like, that in itself is a powerful reminder. I know you’ve shared a lot in your talks, and thank you for sharing it with our audience. The humble beginning, it’s still a whole other thing to grow. So tell me a little bit more. How did you know that? Like, okay, there is interest, but maybe I can, like, grow this into a whole business, because that’s a whole other game. 


06:24

Jeanie Y. Chang
Yeah. Especially if we’re talking about workplace. Right? I didn’t imagine, you know, you hear that typical story of an entrepreneur. I didn’t imagine it would be a business that mine’s the same thing. So I was like, I started realizing I had to turn it into an LLC to be very practical with you because I was starting to get paid on social media. So when you start getting paid, I was like, well, the legit thing is to do, I should just do the right thing and turn it into an LLC and get a bank account. You know, the typical things you do when you start a business. But I still didn’t imagine it being a company, quote unquote, right. Even if it’s an LLC on paper. I did that because it was great to get paid through social media. 


06:58

Jeanie Y. Chang
Just reels, and you could get paid on watch time views. 


07:01

Monica H. Kang
Right? 


07:01

Jeanie Y. Chang
That’s the cool thing about social media and Instagram. And so I was realizing, huh? But when I realized it was becoming, when I say a business, I was already a paid speaker for your change provider. My other clinical practice, or I would say private practice. But I realized, wait a second. I’m glad I have an LLC for Nunas nunchi, because guess what? I was starting to get speaker requests from Nunas Nunchi, where they would either dm me or they would email me, going, hey, we found you on your nunas nunchi Instagram. I’m like, what? Like, you literally found me. So I’m laughing about it because I still have that, I guess, even though I’m an entrepreneur, a corporate mindset of going, oh, we found you through LinkedIn. I mean, no, it was Instagram or. And I think one person was TikTok or something. 


07:45

Jeanie Y. Chang
They looked into it, and they found me because they were also interested in k dramas. And I’m going to just tell you now, the demographic was not what you expected ten years ago, maybe even five years ago, it was mainly asian audiences watching K dramas, c dramas, j dramas. This is when I know, oh, my goodness. Nunes Nucci LLC might be legit now because it was a corporation, an engineering corporation, white demographic. I’m saying this because I’m talking to a bunch of white legal department folks. And I went, this is surreal. I mean, I’m in their Tampa office, and I’m talking about k dramas and mental health. That’s when I realized I’m turning it into a business. And then it grew from there. Speaker requests. But also, even if they didn’t come through me, through new chief, for instance, I have to. 


08:28

Jeanie Y. Chang
Your change provider, a lot of clients. I have very consistent corporate clients that would say, jeannie, okay, this year for mental Health Month, we’re thinking of exploring something different. What kind of ideas do you have? And they would ask me, because they trust me, I’d be like, you know what idea I have? What do you think about K dramas? K drama clips? And I’ll tie it to, like, stress and burnout. They’re like, huh? No, but they’d be like, oh, okay, that’s interesting. Tell me more. Because by then, squid game blew up in 2021. It was well underway. It was like, 202-021-2022 is when I was talking about I was building Nunas Munchi, because, again, the credibility I already had, they were like, that’s interest, jeannie, we’re not sure how our audience is. Okay, that might be interesting, but it’s different. 


09:08

Jeanie Y. Chang
But I would say 80% of the time I pitched it, they went, all right, let’s do it. That’s different. And what I said was, I’m still talking about stress. I’m still talking about mindfulness. I’m just gonna bring in a couple clips, you know? And sure enough, it was just no brainer for me to connect the two, and I would make the connection, and what it did was make it more fun. I’m just be honest with you. People will be like, okay, jeannie’s talking about burnout. Oh, we’re watching something. This is interesting. Some asian people on the screen. I mean, but they started liking it. And let me tell you some clips. If I share the crying clips, you would see people in the audience go like this, and they’d be like, I don’t know why I’m crying. I don’t know. 


09:44

Jeanie Y. Chang
The story is like, I don’t even know what’s happening, but I say you’re crying because you’re seeing someone cry. But that’s how it grew into that, and that’s how I had to turn it into a business that’s so powerful. 


09:57

Monica H. Kang
For folks who don’t speak Korean. Can you explain what Nunas nunchi mean? And how did you think of the name? 


10:02

Jeanie Y. Chang
Yeah, Nunas Nunchi. I wanted something catchy, and I already knew that nunchi was gonna be in the name. So, number one, I wanted nunchi in the name because not only is it a korean term and I wanted to showcase korean culture, but nunchi means it’s like the korean superpower of being sharp, having a keen sense of awareness, knowing what’s going on around you, and even observing other people yourself. And in some sense, I would say reading the room, being able to assess things. And I say, sharp and quick because you have to think quickly with nunchi. So you know the korean thing, right? Nunchi paulo. Nunchi. She’s like, oh, you have no nunchi, right? You hear this with Koreans going, nunchi opso, right? Which is what’s wrong with you. You have no nunchi. And I never. I’ll share this. 


10:46

Jeanie Y. Chang
I never heard that growing up. What I heard as the biggest compliment from adults and elders, to me, even as a young child, was, Jeannie has good nunchi. And I would never know what I’d just do to show that. But I think I was always quick with doing something. Cause I would sense they would want me to do it, so I would just do it right. Or I would notice somebody needing something, and I would just like this. So that’s when my great aunt said to my mom, and I remember this, I was like, seven or eight. She goes, Jeannie has good nunchi. Yeah, nunchi palo. Okay. She’s good. And then I’d be like, I think that’s a cool compliment. And I’m sharing this because it stuck with me. 


11:21

Jeanie Y. Chang
And then in my work in therapy, working with mental health, working with people that tell you things like, oh, Jeannie, I’m fine, I’m good. But then my nunchi says, they don’t seem good. Or I say that they’re not telling me the truth because they’re uncomfortable. Right? I had to do that in my work all the time. I cannot take things at face value. That’s why nunchi is also very important to me. So I knew nunchi was gonna be in there. And honestly, I had to think of something fun that goes with nunchi. I was like, nuna goes well with nunchi. Oh, Nuna’s nunchi. And nuna means older sister. Technically, in real life, with my sister, I’m a. Right. So I guess anybody can call me Ani, but even the women on my fan base or follower base will go, hey, Nuna. So it’s fine. 


12:07

Jeanie Y. Chang
They all know what it means. It means older sister, but it’s an endearing term. I don’t wanna seem like a expert level. I wanna be like a friend, but someone close to you. So I think that made sense. So it’s like, older sisters, wise observations. And I think that’s the kind of level I wanted to exude as a professional, but also inviting. So it’s Nuna’s nunchi. 


12:28

Monica H. Kang
I love how you embedded so many meanings. And to add a little context for those who don’t speak Korean, the reason why there’s two words to say older sister is that Onni is referred to when a female calls an older sister. So, Onny, which is why Jeannie’s referring to her younger sister, would call her Onni, because she was a female calling another female. But when a man calls an older sister, it would be Nuna. So I have a younger brother, so he would call me Nuna because it’s a man calling a sister. And so that’s the reason why. But I love the context because what Jeanne is highlighting. Absolutely true. Check out, folks, if you’re listening to some of our other episode where we talk about caribbean language, we speak about how all those different nuances make a key difference. 


13:04

Monica H. Kang
And Jeannie is highlighting how this very essence of it, which I love, and I love Gini, that it wasn’t an accident, not only the nunchi connecting to you as a person, but also nuna lighting and how you want to be approachable, which is so key. And I know we’ve been speaking already, diving right into Nuna’s nunchi and your work in Kdrama. But we’ll be remiss to ignore the very essence of all of this, which is mental health. How did you first get into it? Why was it important for you? Because I know that story in itself is very powerful and important. 


13:34

Jeanie Y. Chang
Yeah. And I share the story a lot. Technically, my third career, you know, I will be 50, or by the time you hear this, I’m 50, and it sounds so old, but 50 is new. I’m just gonna say that. But I don’t feel 50. I don’t know what 50 feels like, but I’m sharing the age because I’ve been around the block. And technically, when I say third career, I started this a little later. But these days, nothing’s really late, right? I just followed the calling, I would say in my early thirties, perhaps. I do remember this. I was the oldest person when I went back to graduate school to get my license, and it wasn’t that old, but I just remember going seen as the mother, because I already was a mother in some sense. 


14:10

Jeanie Y. Chang
When I decided to just go really deep into this field, if someone had said to me 30 years ago, oh, you’re going to be a mental health. You’re going to be a mental health expert. I’d be like, what are you talking about? I don’t even know what mental health is, because I grew up with no idea of what that was in my korean american upbringing. Parents don’t go, hey, let’s talk about stress. Clearly, there’s stress, right? But we just didn’t talk about it. So I was keen. This is the nunchi. Growing up, I was very keenly aware of emotions. As I think back. I was like, oh, I was being, in some sense, training myself for my career. 


14:43

Jeanie Y. Chang
Because when I was a journalist, which is how I started off my career, I left the field, and I still surprised myself going, oh, my gosh, I really did leave the field at, like, 24 at the height when I honestly just got promoted. That’s the story. I just got promoted to entertainment reporter, and I resigned, like, two weeks later. But I already knew I was going to resign even before the promotion, because it just didn’t feel right to me anymore. And it’s interesting how people are like, so you quit because it didn’t feel right. But I always went with what made sense. Like, I was like, nunchi. And so a lot of this, the word I was experiencing, nobody knew the word. Back in the nineties, it was burnout. So at age 24 in the nineties, nobody knew about burnout. Nobody talked about it. 


15:22

Jeanie Y. Chang
But that’s what I was experiencing, even at a young age. So it doesn’t matter how old you are when you experience burnout. But during that time, then I decided I better go to business school, because what else am I to do as a korean child of the pressure of parents going, what happened to you? Your career dropout? I was worried about my parents and what they would think. And it’s a lot of that in my culture of like, oh, Jeannie. She was going to be this famous journalist, and now she’s not. So I was like, oh, you know what? I’m gonna apply to graduate school. I wanna go to business school. And everyone’s like, oh, okay, that sounds good. I was like, oh, my God, I don’t know anything about business. But I did. And I did get in. 


15:55

Monica H. Kang
And. 


15:55

Jeanie Y. Chang
But during that graduate school, I disliked it very much. That’s actually me putting it mildly. But I finished it. And then I did go into corporate work for a little bit. Marketing, you know, and that’s what I studied. And I wouldn’t say I disliked it. I think I was actually good at it. But just because you’re good at something doesn’t mean it’s quite what you want to do. So it’s really when I was raising my young kids at the time, don’t ask me why I did this, but I had four young kids. I had three young kids by the time I was 30. I wouldn’t plan that. But then I had my fourth. And when I had my fourth at almost 32, I went, okay, I can’t do marketing for the rest of my life. I have four kids. 


16:29

Jeanie Y. Chang
It’s already crazy in my family life. I don’t want to be unhappy like this. And I think I saw my life trajectory of 30 years of being unhappy, which is what I work with now, with folks trying to pivot their lives in the workplace. So I decided to start from scratch. Even at that age where you have to take some prerequisites, I had to go back to graduate school. You cannot practice therapy without a license, and you have to have a master’s. So it was all of that I went through. I don’t recommend it with four kids, but I didn’t. But it was during that graduate school process when I realized I did like it a lot. It was still difficult. I remember pulling all nighters, 30 40 page term papers. I don’t even want to talk about it anymore. 


17:05

Jeanie Y. Chang
But I remember going, oh, I love the topic. I’m talking about trauma. It just clicked with me. Everything made sense, and I applied it a lot to my cultural background. I was like, this is what it means in the asian. Oh, my. Like, it made sense to me. And then I was determined to be the best asian therapist out there, particularly for the asian community, because I felt like there wasn’t enough by the time I graduated. So then I, yeah, I was starting from scratch. So to this day, I just remember some of my friends growing up going, remember when you wanted to, like, totally focus on journalism and be this number one journalist? Now you’re using all those skills today. And so that’s what I’m doing today by using the journalism skills, business skills to be a speaker on workplace mental health. 


17:48

Jeanie Y. Chang
That’s why we’re here, right, dear workplace. 


17:51

Monica H. Kang
And it’s so timely because one of the things that you’re highlighting is how you connect all your past skills to where you are, even though at the beginning, each of those chapters, you weren’t aware yet how it could be used. So looking back, what would you say has been helpful to be more than just a traditional therapist because of the different skills and experience you have? 


18:14

Jeanie Y. Chang
That’s exactly what it is. And actually, you know, the very thing at one point I was sheepish about was saying to people, oh, you’re 34. Why are you in grad school? You know, you feel a little sheepish, which is so funny now because I know six year olds getting their PhD. So this is a different time and age. But I remember back then, I was like, oh, I’m starting from scratch. You know, I decided to pivot from business school. And what ended up happening was even as I was getting my masters and I was studying for therapy, I was actually good at, in therapy program, different things that other therapy students, I’m not saying that they were bad at. 


18:48

Jeanie Y. Chang
I just be like, you know, as I’m reading this case study, I would bring in some angles that people were like, they just saw it as black and white mental health or a trauma case. But I’d be like, you know, let’s think about the business situation they’re in. I would just bring a different perspective. And then being a former broadcast journalist or broadcast reporter, I was very comfortable speaking. So I would always do the presentations, even in business school. And so I think that perfected the speaking. So by the time I finished my graduate degree, got my license, did all the hours to have my own private practice, and I kicked off my private practice, I launched my own private practice, because I, by then, was speaking, I would say, by accident. 


19:29

Jeanie Y. Chang
Maybe things are not by accident, just by happenstance that someone needed a mental health speaker back in 2016. For Cisco, it’s a big it firm. And I was in my backyard, and I was like, they just called me. A friend of mine. A friend of a friend went, Jeannie, we need a mental health speaker, like, in two months for mental health Month. Can you do it? I was like, what does that look like? Because I don’t think I’ve ever done it. They go, oh, just speak on mental health, and put together a PowerPoint. And I did. And it was during that time I was putting together the presentation that something clicked. I went, this is kind of fun. Not only am I about to present this, it’s, like, my content that I’m curating for this organization. But then I was a little nervous. 


20:10

Jeanie Y. Chang
But I kid you not, they didn’t tell me it was this operation. I had to go in person, speak to. Maybe, like, maybe it’s like 50, 60 in person. Then they live stream me to their San Jose office in China. So they’re like, oh, jeannie, it looks like there’s 650 people online. I was like, oh, okay, I’m really start. But as I was presenting, it came naturally. I would explain the terms. I would kind of be personal, with examples going, hey, for instance, Cisco. And I would just understand the business language. Does that make sense? So I think it made sense that I understood the way workplace overall because of my own experience. And then it made it relatable. I did not come in sounding like a clinician. Like, I didn’t want to sound clinical. 


20:49

Jeanie Y. Chang
I wanted to sound that I knew my stuff, but then it was approachable, and they’d be like, Jeannie made things easy to understand. That’s my biggest compliment. I never want to hear someone going, oh, yeah, she’s an expert. No, no, I want to hear. Jeannie made mental health sound like it’s normal. I feel so much better talking to her that I’ve done my job. And then from Cisco, it just grew from there. 


21:08

Monica H. Kang
I hear that, and I really appreciate how you’ve been able to intertwine, but it’s so organically, as you have said, really appreciate it, because I think that’s what you’re doing now with the stage, with kdrama. It’s not that. Perhaps, in a way, maybe saying out loud it’s kdrama. Maybe somebody thought of it, but it’s. Nobody has come from your background with mental health. With business and all these aspects, which is so key. And so one of the things that I’m really excited is kind of diving a little bit into it, but also about your personal chapter. You shared about your skills and experiences, but also would like to revisit that with your korean american identity. How did it feel for you growing up as a korean American? Because we’ll be remiss to address that. You know, we’re still a minority. 


21:49

Monica H. Kang
You also grew up in a city where you didn’t see a lot of people like you, and so how did that influence your relationship with mental health early on? And I’m curious how it has helped you be where you are today. So bring us back to your past as well. 


22:03

Jeanie Y. Chang
I would say a lot of my work involves the identity, and so what it’s done for my own identity is when I’m talking about to everybody else how the intersectionality of mental health and cultural identity is a powerful one. It has helped me help others. So, for instance, I can’t be authentic in helping others if I’m sitting there in my own world of going, oh, I have problems with my own korean american identity over the years, especially during business school and graduate school. So schooling has helped where I was breaking down my own cultural conflict. And I want to explain that because you said, I did grow up in a very white suburbia. Lovely, lovely childhood. I feel very blessed. But I was the lone Asian, and maybe there was another family, and I always stood out. 


22:48

Jeanie Y. Chang
So it was always one of those where when you’re growing up, you don’t want to stand out. Now we want to stand out. But growing up, people were like, oh, Jeannie, so your mom has an accent, or, oh, so what do you. What kind of food do you eat? And are you from North Korea? I’m bringing those questions in because they do matter. And again, they weren’t necessarily ill intended, but they did make me grow up with a complex. And a lot of Korean Americans will tell, will share this with you, right? Going, yeah. So I grew up with an inferiority complex and also feeling like, oh, yeah, I don’t belong here. So many a times, I disliked being korean. 


23:21

Jeanie Y. Chang
And I’m sharing this because I cannot believe that, what, 30, 40 plus years later, I am using k dramas in my work to elevate everyone’s mental health. I mean, I am literally saying, hey, this is how korean dramas have meant to me. And I say this from the get go. They believe me because they know that it’s coming from an authentic place. I share about korean dramas helping your mental health? Because it helped mine. As I first watched that first one in 1992 when I was a little torn about who I was 18. I just remember going, oh, actually, I guess Koreans can look cool. And I’m sharing this because, again, I just saw Korea through my parents eyes, traditional perspective. And now, as I’m a parent and raising Gen Z’s, I’m going, wait a second. I understand my parents. 


24:08

Jeanie Y. Chang
And that happens right when you get older and you’re like, I totally understand where they were coming from. And now there’s such empathy and compassion to where I am today. So what I’m trying to get at is all those angst. And the cultural clashes that my clients go through is actually part of the process. It’s part of the identity process. It makes you figure things out, and that’s my job, is helping people navigate that. Going, yep, that’s the conflict. Yes, I have been there as well. However, this is where you are, and it’s okay to be where you are. So all of me talking about korean dramas and korean culture and then the language and then speaking to non Asians, now about korean dramas, that’s a good question itself. You got to talk about that. 


24:48

Jeanie Y. Chang
I’m sitting here floored, surreal, going, am I talking about korean dramas to non Asians in this room who love korean culture? And that just also validates my work even more, where I’m like, I don’t feel like a foreigner anymore. Now, there are times, of course, depending on the situation you’re in and circumstances we are in the workplace. Yeah, there are times that I’m treated like a foreigner, right? Oh, you asian female. And I’m bringing that up because that’s very much part of our workplace today, so we have to be aware of that. However, because of the work I do promoting that belongingness to your identity, to others, it makes it easy for me to preach what I teach, right? Or, like, basically lean into what I teach. I’m like, wait a second. This is what I teach my clients. I shall do the same. 


25:34

Jeanie Y. Chang
And I’ve never been prouder than ever of my korean American. I would say bicultural heritage. And the korean part is most important in the sense that it comes first. We don’t say american Korean. We say Korean American. 


25:48

Monica H. Kang
You know, it’s a very fine observation, and I want to revisit, to your point, that comment about the diverse demographic that you served today. Tell me a little bit more. Who are currently your audience that you’re serving, and how do they find you oh, my gosh. 


26:01

Jeanie Y. Chang
It still floors me when the most DM’s direct messages on my social media are non asian. Now, of course, I have asian friends and fans and colleagues and people who love k dramas, but most of the time, it is from blacks, Latinx, white Americans, South Africans, Europeans that dm me. And they know what it means because I’ll share it with them on my stories. Going, this means so much that you will. You want to converse with me. Not just me as Jeannie Chang, but converse, going, Jeannie, let’s talk about that K drama, right? Or, Jeannie, where can I learn korean language? And then I’ll get pictures of Jeannie, I just made kimbap. I kid you not. I just made kimchi. And then they’ll be like, hey, by the way, how do you make your kimchi? And I’ll be like, I don’t make kimchi. 


26:44

Jeanie Y. Chang
So when I say my mom made kimchi, and then I just now eat hers, and she’ll just give it to me, and then they’re, like, writing me back, going, you don’t make kimchi. They’re like, oh, my God, that’s so terrible. How come, genius? Because they’re just saying you’re korean. And what I love about that, though, is such an acceptance and appreciation for the korean culture that if you had told me, you know, 30 years ago that we would see this, I’d be like, I wouldn’t believe you. Right? And that’s so important that my audience is global. And not only is the audience global, fellow influencers who talk about K dramas, they’re non asian, okay? The person that runs the biggest korean american community, who I know is a sweet girl, is from Dubai. 


27:24

Jeanie Y. Chang
And so I’m sitting here sometimes talking to her, and I’m watching her as she was on my tour. I’m sitting there going, okay, you talking to me? This is surreal. Wow. But when I say surreal and they know how I feel, I just say that I appreciate that so much that they love K dramas. They’re learning the language. They’re eating pibimba, which is that mixed rice bowl, like their life depended on it. And I’m sitting here going, I’m all for it. Like, I’m here and soaking it in. So the audience is global, and it’s only growing more global. 


27:54

Monica H. Kang
I love that very much. And speaking of which, we do want to talk about the tour. Nuna’s nunchi tour that also launched now, this is your second year. Last year was such a success. Congratulations. 


28:04

Jeanie Y. Chang
And you sold out already. 


28:06

Monica H. Kang
2024 is very fast as well. Tell me a little bit more how that idea came together and the beauty of now bringing these people in person to Korea. And for context, we should remind, Jeannie’s actually not based in Korea. 


28:21

Jeanie Y. Chang
No, I’m not based in Korea, though I don’t mind to because I love going there. However, I get to go on South Korea tours with my global community that discovered me through the love of kdrama, so I turned it into a business. So this is another company. So let me just talk about the companies. I have your change provider. Nunas Nunchi and nunas nunchi tours. When I came back from my trip in 2022, I hadn’t gone in many years. We went with family, and I documented it, you know, put it on Instagram, and all my followers were like, okay, jeannie, if you ever decide to go on a kdrama tour or lead one, ha ha, we’ll go with you. And I went, that’s funny. I’m not doing what. I’m not a tour. I was just like, that’s funny. 


28:59

Jeanie Y. Chang
But then I started thinking about it, and then I saw the response from the community, the global community, especially in the US and Canada, that were like, no, we’re being serious. If you put together a tour, we’ll follow. So here’s the business sense. Good thing I went to business school. I’m like, And I was first thinking what it meant for business, because I was thinking, well, nobody is doing a kdrama tour. But then I went through, how much of this is going to be passion? Because it’s not easy putting together. I’m not a tour company. I was like, what am I doing? Long story short, fast forward. It took eleven months, but in order to give any kind of tour, I gotta be logistic. I gotta be legit. So I had to go through the whole legal business process in Korea. 


29:40

Jeanie Y. Chang
Now, I will share this. I am very proud that I got it done because Korean used to be my first language when I was little. But when I’m not as bilingual as I could be, it’s all about practice. I’m sitting in an insurance office in downtown Seoul with people talking about liability insurance for a tour company. It’s all in Korean, and it’s in business. And I just went. I just remember at one point going, okay, it’s out of body experience. I have no clue what they’re saying, even though I understand Korean, but it was all over my head, right? But somehow we managed, and I’m sharing this with you. Because it’s just the culmination of this company that I got to do technically as a quote unquote foreigner. So in Korean, they would say, I’m a us citizen. Right? 


30:21

Jeanie Y. Chang
So there are many times they refer to me as this is a foreigner based company, which probably why it took an extra cost. And by the way, I had to get a whole team of attorneys because we’re talking tour operator slash tourism registration slash Jeannie Chang, the foreigner based in us. But I made it work, and I launched my two tours literally in the nick of time. But the whole point is I did turn it into a business, but really, it’s not about the business. It’s about this global community that when I met them in person, I mean, it’s hard to explain, but it basically, it helped my mental health. So I thought here I was helping others. I’m like, hey, we’re going to create this tour. Kdrama sites, Nuna’s nunchi. 


31:01

Jeanie Y. Chang
Jeannie Chang is going to add mental health wellness experiences, which I did, but the reward and all the benefits really came back to me going, oh, my gosh, I’m meeting these people from all over America and Canada, some from Asia. Now this year, it’s going to be even more. And they’re seeing and they’re loving korean culture so much. It’s just been amazing. 


31:22

Monica H. Kang
Thank you so much for sharing that. I know one of the other humbling thing that you shared offline as were preparing the story was just how for some of these guests, they’ve never been to Korea, many of them, but in fact, some of them have never even left the United States. And for them to tell their family, hey, I’m going on a trip that I met on Instagram, is really powerful because what you’ve really done is not only introduced mental health in a very creative, empowering way, but opening the korean culture and just Korea country as itself to people who have never thought otherwise that they can go see in person, which is really exciting. Tell me a little bit more, what’s in store for this year for those who still want to attend? 


32:02

Monica H. Kang
Like, is there still spots or is it already sold out and they have to wait for next year? 


32:06

Jeanie Y. Chang
Well, by the time this comes out, I’m assuming the fall, we only have, like, five to six slots left. So I think it’s pretty much sold out for this year. So went from two tours in 2023 to six because of the demand. And also, let’s take a risk as a risk by saying, let’s expand it. You know, I say risk because there’s a lot of work involved, you know, but absolutely, no. You talked about the community. This is still a very much global community. It’s grown more this year, and there are some people, I would say 90%. Okay, maybe 95% have not been to South Korea on my tours. 


32:40

Monica H. Kang
Wow. 


32:41

Jeanie Y. Chang
Right? First introduction, and then there’s some people, like you said, I told you two people from last year who have never flown outside the US. They’re us citizens. And when they told me that, I went, okay, you never flew outside the America. And they were like, yeah. And I go, and you came to. You came to my tour. It’s just a little incredulous for me, going, what? They’re like, yeah, not only do we know you, like, we trust you, Jeannie. That’s number one. Number two, we love South Korea from the k dramas. And I went, that’s when I was like, oh, my goodness. This is surreal. And these two women, I’m going to describe their age, 56 and 70, never been outside the US. And they’re business people. You would think, oh, are they home? No, they’re. One of them is a corporate executive. 


33:23

Jeanie Y. Chang
Okay, they’ve been busy. But also, nothing really floated their boat to go, I don’t care about Europe. I’m not saying they said that. It’s just that all of a sudden, they’re like, I’m going to South Korea. And you’re right. Their family members were like, what? Like, what? And then they told me things like, yeah, don’t worry. I’m safe. I’m going to someone I met on Instagram. And then everyone’s like, you’re going with. On a tour? With someone you met on a social media platform? And it’s our biggest joke throughout the tour, because they’re like, we’re so glad Jeannie’s legit. But I also think they trusted me because I’m talking about mental health. I think that’s a very different beast when I’m talking about your well being and trying to say, hey, guys, this is how we deal with depression or trauma. 


34:03

Jeanie Y. Chang
So I’m talking about tough things. I think that helped the credibility, but that’s the biggest joke. And this year, I hear it’s gonna be even more diverse. And folks like mother and daughter trips. I’ve heard someone celebrating their 65th birthday on my tour. I’m just so excited. 


34:18

Monica H. Kang
I’m so excited. Well, we’ll certainly be able to make sure listeners get a chance to follow you as well to get update on those stories. And learn more. Maybe they’ll be able to look out for your 2025 because they already missed this year’s. 


34:30

Jeanie Y. Chang
Cause it’s already sold out. 


34:32

Monica H. Kang
But I know you’re still making it accessible not only through your social media platform and your services and speaking that you continue, but you’re also having a book that’s coming out. When can we expect, and how would this continue to expand on your work? 


34:44

Jeanie Y. Chang
Yeah, a book. I actually have a book coming out, yes, on kdramas and mental health. So everything I just talked about the platform and how it came about literally is going through a book published by Wiley, which I’m really proud about. Now, as a licensed clinician, Wiley is known in the education field and research. So to think that they reached out to me because they found out about me through my platform. So never underestimate the power of social media for business. But, yeah, I wrote a book last year, and I’m proud to say this, but I wrote 98% of it in Korea. Cause I was in Korea a lot last year. 


35:17

Monica H. Kang
Wow. 


35:18

Jeanie Y. Chang
Yeah. And it’s just feeling that energy of my home country, where I was born in my culture, and writing about korean content and how it helps. And the title is how kdramas can transform your life. So I’m being very bold. I’m saying it’s going to transform your life. And then the subtitle is powerful lessons on belongingness, healing, and mental health. So it pretty much tells you what it’s going to be about. But I talk about how a K drama, like crash landing on you outlines depression. And so there’s many things that I hope people walk away, not just going, oh, I’m going to watch K dramas. That’s not my intent, actually. My intent is for you to read this book and go, oh, I better understand depression. That’s what this looks like. Wow. 


35:58

Jeanie Y. Chang
And then this K drama can help me see what it looks like. And it’s just maybe using it as an example to share stories. But I’m really talking about mental health. At the end of the day, that’s my goal. So that’s this book, and it comes out during mental health month in May. So it’s good timing. It’s a little scary, though, because I’m like, who’s gonna read a book about k dramas? I always go, oh, my gosh, I know k dramas are global, but it’s also that fear of, are people going to read this book? So I hope so. That’s my hope. Yeah. 


36:25

Monica H. Kang
Well, we certainly will. And folks will be, make sure that we have all the links, you know where to find them. We always add all the comments in the links, so that way, you know where to follow our guests and learn more about them. We covered so many different rounds, but one of the things I love doing, especially for this series, as we talk about korean culture and business owners, is doing a little rapid round in Korea. 


36:46

Jeanie Y. Chang
And so I’m going to ask you. 


36:47

Monica H. Kang
Some quick questions if you can do a little rip it round with me. So one genie’s favorite korean food would be. 


36:52

Jeanie Y. Chang
Oh, why? Because I love spiciness. I love the texture, and it just comforts me. Plus, it’s a classic street food, and I’m really simple. I don’t want something fancy. I just want the real street food that people eat on the street. So that’s my favorite one. And then hotak is second. Hotak is the sweet pancake. Also a street food. So it’s. I’m really simple. I don’t need something like, yeah, but, like, really, I go, yeah, just give me duck cookbook. In fact, if I don’t have duck cookbook once a week when I’m in Korea, on the street. Yeah. Then you see me go through withdrawal going, where’s Duck? Pookie? I need tteokbokki right now. 


37:26

Monica H. Kang
Reach out to her for tteokbokki and recommendations on it. Favorite korean word? 


37:30

Jeanie Y. Chang
Word. It would be a thai, nunchi, and chung. What’s Chung? 


37:35

Monica H. Kang
For those who don’t know. 


37:36

Jeanie Y. Chang
So with an emotional, I would say an attachment. Right. That the korean people have. It also can be bad where you feel this bad chung to like somebody as well. I want to make that clear, but it’s emotional, I would say innate in korean culture to feeling an affinity or a kinship. And the jeong that you see in korean culture is this classic scenario. I’ll show you. You’re walking down the street and you think no one’s noticing you, but you drop something, and then, like, a Han muni or a harabhaji usually picks it up for you. I’m sitting there going, oh, I was gonna get it. But that’s an example of Chung going, oh, I saw that you dropped something. Just that affinity and affection for even strangers, so much part of the korean culture. 


38:14

Jeanie Y. Chang
Maybe that is my first, my favorite word, because I love. It’s so. I would say endearing. And it’s very much part of our culture. 


38:22

Monica H. Kang
I know this is gonna be a hard one, but favorite k drama at the moment? 


38:26

Jeanie Y. Chang
At the moment? Well, my favorite k drama of all time is my mister Naya Ajashi. That’s a no brainer. It’s a little bit of a sad, melancholy one with a lot of hope at the end. That’s all I’m gonna say. But my favorite current one, if you’re watching this now, it’s gonna be over by the time you hear this. It’s marry my husband. So it’s kind of like. It’s a fantasy slash, a little bit of a thriller, dramatic. But why do I like it? Because you see the female character. Yes, I’m female, so I identify with that. Where you see her empowered to change her life. Cause she has a second chance at life, and obviously it’s a fantasy. Cause it’s not really real. 


39:03

Jeanie Y. Chang
But to see somebody decide to change her life circumstances because she wants a better life for herself, I think it’s really cool to see that. So let’s marry my husband. It’s fun. 


39:12

Monica H. Kang
Very cool. If somebody’s visiting Korea for the first time, what should they absolutely do and where should they go? 


39:19

Jeanie Y. Chang
Absolutely do is eat, obviously, right? Please eat. But people don’t. I mean, I think they know that. I think that’s actually one of the things that my foreigner tour. People look forward to. To eating, but not just don’t sit in a restaurant so much. Go see the street food that you see in k dramas and stand and eat like people normally do. And also slurp noodles. Right? You slurp very korean. Because to show that you love it in western culture, it’s rude. But in korean culture, it is like a tap showing. Hey, I love this food. 


39:48

Jeanie Y. Chang
Then another thing that I really think you need to do is not so much the tourist spaces, but I think going to the cafes sound so modern and trendy, but you get to observe people, and that’s where I see the changti, where, like I said, someone might notice something, and they’d be like, oh, your sweater’s on the ground. I mean, I don’t know. I’m just saying little things at a cafe. I love the cafes in Korea, so I highly recommend that. And then, of course, any of the sites. But that’s a lot. I just threw you away. Definitely food. What I’m trying to say is, immerse yourself in local living. Korea has become very foreigner friendly, too, meaning you can get around easily on your own without really speaking the language. 


40:29

Monica H. Kang
Speaking of cafe, one thing that I always still have to transition whenever I’m back in Korea is, like, leaving my stuff at a cafe, and they’re like, Monica, why are you carrying all your purse, just leave it in the chair. Because in America, you would never think twice to leave. I would always make sure. Maybe I leave my jacket if it’s, like, not expensive to, like, hold the seat. But I would still always want to sit next to it because I. And it’s not that I don’t trust people. It’s just that culturally, you wouldn’t. But in Korea, like, you literally even put your person, like, laptop out there, and you go to the bathroom and nobody takes it. In fact, people out there look out for it. I’m like, hey, somebody’s sitting there. And so I have to share a. 


41:03

Jeanie Y. Chang
Story where people, the locals, even foreigner locals, will say, jeannie. Yeah. Not only did I leave my laptop, cell phone, backpack to hold my spot, they said they walked home to go to the bathroom. Cause they just felt more comfortable going. 


41:16

Monica H. Kang
To the bathroom and came back. 


41:18

Jeanie Y. Chang
And I said, how long was that? They go, oh, it’s like, 45 minutes. And I was like, so you left your laptop, cell phone, except your keys for 45 minutes. They go, this is what they said to me. They go, yeah, I didn’t want my spot taken. And I just remember going, but you know what? I see it. Because the cafes are so popular. They’re like, grab a spot. But not. They don’t care. 


41:38

Monica H. Kang
But nobody steals. 


41:39

Jeanie Y. Chang
No, nobody. That’s such. Enough. That’s great, right? Let’s hope that never changes. But I love that. That they’re like, just leave your stuff. And I’m like, I’m from the US. We don’t do that. Okay. We don’t leave anything. But, yeah, that’s what I love. 


41:54

Monica H. Kang
No, it’s really powerful. No, Jeanne, thank you so much. It was such a treat having you. You shared so many different wisdoms and insights. Really appreciate it. I know you already have many followers and fans, but a two final thing is, as we’re talking about mental health, I am also wondering, how are you managing your mental health as you continue to expand and grow? Because I’m thinking out loud. I’m like, that’s a lot of things you’re doing. So if you can share a quick tip. And I also love to. Any final words of wisdom as we wrap up. 


42:20

Jeanie Y. Chang
This is also part of my final words of wisdom. I can’t do my job. I have left the term self care, as in, people hear the word self, especially in asian culture, and think that’s selfish. I reframe that saying. Well, actually, no, it’s self full. Because how am I supposed to take care of you as a client if I’m a mess, right? Or how am I supposed to be a good mother or even a wife or a colleague if I am stressed out? I really do work hard at it. It is not easy. And there are times when I’ll text friends, text you, Monica going, oh, my God, I’m stressed out. I don’t make myself isolated. That’s a very non asian thing. I think in that sense, growing up in the US, I lean on friends, I lean on community. 


43:00

Jeanie Y. Chang
I’ll even ask people, hey, guys, what do you recommend? If they actually say, jeannie, stop doing this, then I’ll be like, oh, you’re right, I better have better boundaries. So I seek advice just because I give that advice for mental health, I seek it just as equally. So I think that’s important to know that I’m always learning myself. And then number two is, it’s a dynamic process. It is not me going, one and done. I’m good. Taking care of my mental health today. No, every day I wake up and I have to reset going, oh, okay, this is stressing me out. Let me work this out, or, this is making me happy. Let me do more of this. So every day I tell people, just like, you’re so good with physical hygiene, brushing teeth, washing our hair, I hope we do that. 


43:39

Jeanie Y. Chang
But mental health hygiene is just as important and it’s part of my daily day as when I go, okay, mental health hygiene. Oh, my goodness. I didn’t do anything today. God, my mental health is a mess. Right, that’s what I mean. So just like your physical hair would be a mess if you didn’t take care of it, you gotta take care of your mind, right? So. And your mind controls so much of your physical health. So that’s everyday process. My hygiene for mental health. 


44:04

Monica H. Kang
Love it. Well, Jeanne, thank you so much. What’s the best way folks can stay in touch with you and follow up Instagram? 


44:10

Jeanie Y. Chang
LinkedIn? I’m on all the socials, but yeah, I proud myself if you dm me on Instagram, not like I’ll always respond, but I read them and then I’ll respond in a public way sometimes. Boy, someone posted this question. So keep in touch with me on social media, especially Instagram. 


44:25

Monica H. Kang
Sounds great. Well, we’ll have all the social tag. Thank you so much, Jeannie, for joining us, folks, again. We’ll be back with another story next week. 


44:31

Jeanie Y. Chang
Week. 


44:31

Monica H. Kang
And youre tuning into dear workplace. I love that we got a chance. 


44:36

Monica H. Kang
To explore this and, well, definitely get a chance to think about this the next time I watch k drama. Thank you Jeanne. Be sure to check out our content and follow her nunas nunchi so that you can learn more. But speaking of which, some of us might be wondering, well, what about our youth and our next generation? Is there perhaps something that I can do? Anything that is related to korean culture that could inspire us or maybe even our korean diasporas? Next generation? Lucky us. Our next guest is the very person who has been thinking about this for many decades and has some thoughts as well as perhaps a solution that you can tune into. You’re listening to dear workplace by InnovatorsBox. You’re listening to dear workplace by innovators box. 


45:26

Monica H. Kang
Hey, thanks so much for tuning in to another episode at Dear Workplace by InnovatorsBox and your host Monica Kang me. Hey, thanks so much for tuning in to another episode at Dear Workplace by Innovators Box and your host Monica King me. I hope you enjoyed today’s conversation. Today’s episode is possible thanks to a wonderful team who has dedicated their time and making sure you hear the quality research that you heard today. To audio engineering and production lead by Sam Lehmart, Audio Engineering assistant by Ravi Lad, website and Marketing Support by Kree Pandey, Graphic Support by Leah Orsini, Christine Eribal, Original Music by InnovatorsBox Studios, and executive producing directing, writing researching hosted by me, Monica Kang, Founder and CEO of InnovatorsBox. 


45:54

Monica H. Kang
To audio engineering and production lead by Sam Waymirn Audio Engineering assistant by Ravi Ladd website and Marketing Support by Cree Pandey Graphic Support by Leah Orsini Christine Eribal Original Music by Innovators Box Studios and executive producing directing, writing researching hosted by me, Monica King, Founder and CEO of Innovators Box. Thank you so much. Your love and support and sharing means the world to us. Please send us any questions and thoughts you have and what you want to learn more next and we’ll dive right into it. Thank you and have a wonderful day. See you soon. 

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